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 AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game 
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Post AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
I'm taking a break from the flat schedule I've been working on, though I do plan to get back to it and add international races. But for now I'd like to take some time on the jumps game, which I think needs a lot of improvements too, hopefully we could see some improvements made as we did with the flat game.

Some things I think are the biggest issues at the moment are:

- Novice races really need to be graded. As it is all novice races are the same class, so this means that horses that win races like the Supreme Novice Hurdle, or the RSA Chase then are not recognised by the game as Grade 1 winners, and their future entries reflect this. Whereas if these races were grade one races then they would be recognised as grade one winners and be entered by the AI into the type of races that winners of these races would run in in real life.

- Still too many horses are running in chases without running over hurdles first. In real life pretty much no horses will go into chasing without having ran over hurdles first. I think the game should have this condition that horses need to have run over hurdles before being able to run over fences. This may cause issues at the start of the game where obviously no horses have any form, but if there is a way to have all novice chasers having run over hurdles previously than that would be really good and realistic.

- It still seems that only horses that are 4 years old before the new year and then 5 years old in the new year for cheltenham are running as novice hurdlers. Horses of no other ages are novice hurdlers, which is not right as in real life you can have 7, 8 or even 9 year old novice hurdlers. I think this may be contributing to horses going straight into chasing as if they don't run over hurdles at this age, they then don't seem to be able to run as novice hurdlers, and so instead go straight into novice chasing.

- Horses seem to run over a too wide a range of distances. Interchanging between 2 miles and 2 and a half and even 2 miles and 3 miles. In real life horses tend to stick to the distance they have the best form at. Yes, horses may step up from 2 miles to 3 miles, such as Kauto Star, but once they step up in trip, they tend to stay at 3 miles, not keep interchanging between the distances. I think horses should stick to the distances they they are running best over, this would make horses careers more realistic and their form, as they won't have poor form from running in races that are not their best distance.

- I know I mentioned it about the flat game, but perhaps its even more important in the jumps game, that there should be more male horses than female horses, the vast majority of NH horses in real life are male horses. I know Mark you said that this is something you don't think could work at the moment, which I understand, but just thought I'd mention it as something that can maybe be looked at in the future.

I think the jumps game does need some changes made in order to catch up with the flat game in terms of realism, which has been greatly improved in the flat game, so hopefully we can see the same sort of improvements in the jumps game.

Thanks!


Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:05 pm
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Group 2 winner

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 3:50 pm
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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
The <EXTFIELDSPEC>home tag doesn't seem to work in the jumps game. This was fixed to make races only open to native horses in a patch some time ago and seemed to work well in the flat game, however it isn't working in the jumps game.


Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:02 pm
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Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:50 am
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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
qwsa wrote:
I'm taking a break from the flat schedule I've been working on, though I do plan to get back to it and add international races. But for now I'd like to take some time on the jumps game, which I think needs a lot of improvements too, hopefully we could see some improvements made as we did with the flat game.

Some things I think are the biggest issues at the moment are:

- Novice races really need to be graded. As it is all novice races are the same class, so this means that horses that win races like the Supreme Novice Hurdle, or the RSA Chase then are not recognised by the game as Grade 1 winners, and their future entries reflect this. Whereas if these races were grade one races then they would be recognised as grade one winners and be entered by the AI into the type of races that winners of these races would run in in real life.

- Still too many horses are running in chases without running over hurdles first. In real life pretty much no horses will go into chasing without having ran over hurdles first. I think the game should have this condition that horses need to have run over hurdles before being able to run over fences. This may cause issues at the start of the game where obviously no horses have any form, but if there is a way to have all novice chasers having run over hurdles previously than that would be really good and realistic.

- It still seems that only horses that are 4 years old before the new year and then 5 years old in the new year for cheltenham are running as novice hurdlers. Horses of no other ages are novice hurdlers, which is not right as in real life you can have 7, 8 or even 9 year old novice hurdlers. I think this may be contributing to horses going straight into chasing as if they don't run over hurdles at this age, they then don't seem to be able to run as novice hurdlers, and so instead go straight into novice chasing.

- Horses seem to run over a too wide a range of distances. Interchanging between 2 miles and 2 and a half and even 2 miles and 3 miles. In real life horses tend to stick to the distance they have the best form at. Yes, horses may step up from 2 miles to 3 miles, such as Kauto Star, but once they step up in trip, they tend to stay at 3 miles, not keep interchanging between the distances. I think horses should stick to the distances they they are running best over, this would make horses careers more realistic and their form, as they won't have poor form from running in races that are not their best distance.

- I know I mentioned it about the flat game, but perhaps its even more important in the jumps game, that there should be more male horses than female horses, the vast majority of NH horses in real life are male horses. I know Mark you said that this is something you don't think could work at the moment, which I understand, but just thought I'd mention it as something that can maybe be looked at in the future.

I think the jumps game does need some changes made in order to catch up with the flat game in terms of realism, which has been greatly improved in the flat game, so hopefully we can see the same sort of improvements in the jumps game.

Thanks!


1st point about novices graded winners, it's probably good or your ex novice will have the graded penalty and is now weighted out of the races next season, this is one of the unrealistic things I agree upon keeping in the jumps game.

2. Agreed. Very few horses go chasing before hurdling, even PTP horses go NHF and even hurdling before novice chasing.

3. I mentioned novice races in my earlier thread tonight, until the horse wins then it's still a novice over hurdles or chases.

4. Ok I lost count. Hmm.. My jumps stable is all stallions and geldings trying to prove themselves, 30+ and a lack of females and I spend most of my time buying all the mares and fillies I can. Sending them straight to the barn! Even my 3yos go breeding rather than juvenile hurdling, I even run them then send them to breed at the beginning/end of the season.


Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:07 am
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Group 2 winner

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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
Its a fair point, but I would argue that winners of graded novice races should be weighted out of handicaps, because in real life they wouldn't generally run in these races, they would run in graded races in their second season. At the moment they aren't going from the RSA chase to the Betfair chase for example, instead because they arent considered by the AI as a grade one winner, they go for handicap races, which means that graded races like the Betfair chase have quite poor fields. Perhaps prepping will help with this, I'll try as I haven't really tried yet, but I do think novice races should be graded still.


Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:07 pm
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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
Mark, is the jumps game likely to see improvements? At the moment there are lots of walkover and void races in novice races, particularly hurdle races as there just aren't enough novice hurdlers because they can only run as novice hurdlers at one age group, and so many have already ran as juvenile hurdlers that when they reach the one age group they can run in novice hurdle races, they can't because they aren't eligible. This is even worse in foreign races. Also without the EXTFIELDSPEC fixing races to only be for home nationalities, horses are running all over the place, and very very often. It seems that a lot of the changes that were made to the flat game, which were really great, but haven't been applied to the jumps game.

Thanks


Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:09 pm
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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
I have added a number of Irish novice hurdle races, and they are getting tiny fields and lots are resulting in walk overs or void races, but when you look through the horses in training, there are more than enough 4 year old horses that could go novice hurdling, but are just not running for some reason. If the game could get more horses running I think this would solve this problem of not enough horses running in novice hurdle races.


Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:12 pm
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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
The jumps is more compicated due to the different career paths a horse may take and other pool considerations. I plan to revisit this soon and hopefuly progress can be made but right now there are other jobs that need finishing.


Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:41 am
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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
Mark wrote:
The jumps is more compicated due to the different career paths a horse may take and other pool considerations. I plan to revisit this soon and hopefuly progress can be made but right now there are other jobs that need finishing.



Could you also look at summer jump Juvenile hurdles and Novice Hurdle races June To August has these are Void Races in the Combined Schedule and I am dong USA Jumps Courses and Schedule and the Jumps start March to November I am thinking that if I doing USA Jump Schedule that again during June to August I will get Void Races.


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Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:35 am
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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
Thanks Mark!


Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:29 pm
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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
+


Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:01 pm
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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
Mark, I know you said there are other priorities and you plan to look at the jumps game more in the future, but would it be possible just to make <EXTFIELDSPEC>home fix fields to home horses as was done in the flat game? This change would help out a lot for the time being.

Thanks


Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:19 pm
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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
Quote:
Mark, I know you said there are other priorities and you plan to look at the jumps game more in the future, but would it be possible just to make <EXTFIELDSPEC>home fix fields to home horses as was done in the flat game? This change would help out a lot for the time being.


This should be working fine as the code applies to both flat and jumps. Are you getting problems on a certain race? If so please email in the schedule you are using details the problem.


Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:23 am
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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
It seems to be the UK races that it's not working for, in a uk game, so perhaps it's not working when applied to races of the main nation? In my jumps game lots of irish horses are running in uk races when the home tag is applied, however uk horses arent running in irish races when the tag is applied.


Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:41 am
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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
Quote:
It seems to be the UK races that it's not working for, in a uk game, so perhaps it's not working when applied to races of the main nation? In my jumps game lots of irish horses are running in uk races when the home tag is applied, however uk horses arent running in irish races when the tag is applied.


Yes it looks like that flag was not working for local races. Try 1.014.


Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:26 pm
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Post Re: AI and schedule improvements to Jumps Game
Thanks Mark!


Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:45 am
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