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 Improvements to schedule and AI 
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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
qwsa wrote:
Mark, I know there was a patch that made group one winners run in lower graded races on their first run of the season, and this has worked well. I really think this would be great if it could be expanded so that its not only their first run, perhaps group one winners should still be able to run in group 2 and 3 races at other times as preps for group one races. Perhaps a way to control this would be if they run in lower graded races when prepped to do so. This would be really useful in creating schedules where horses have realistic campaigns.


To be honest, I can't think of many examples of a G1-winning horse taking in a G2 or G3 race in mid-season. As you say, they would usually only do this for their first run of the season, and even then only if it's a horse that tends to need a run. I remember when this feature was originally added to a previous game, it was me that had suggested it, and it was because too many horses were winning races, then being entered in races at lower grades and struggling to deal with the penalty, leading to very erratic form figures for horses that should really only be looking to race at the same level or higher after a victory. It should really apply to all grades, so G2 winners should generally avoid races at G3 or lower, and G3 winners should avoid races at Listed level or lower as well. If a horse wins a race and is already entered for a lower-grade race in the future, it should also be scratched from that race, so for example, a Derby winner should be scratched from the King Edwards VII Stakes at Royal Ascot if it had been entered for that race.


Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:18 pm
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Group 1 winner

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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
I do agree, and can see how it would be unreliable and could lead to erratic form, which is why I thought maybe if it was only group 2 races that were prepped with group one races for example. And you are right that its rarely seen, its in trying to create realistic schedules for international countries like Hong Kong and Japan that I thought it would be useful. For example, in Hong Kong group one winners often run in group 2's and even 3's, Beauty Generations is an example of this. Likewise in Japan, derby winners may often run in a group 2 prep for the St Leger, and there are a few other examples from these countries, whereas it is obviously rarely seen in Europe, so it may not be the best suggestion, but if there were a way to control it it may be helpful in some cases.


Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:51 pm
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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
I'm working on a schedule at the moment and there are a few things related to this that I think would be great if they can be improved.

Panthers points about group one winners running in lower graded races is certainly fair. At the moment group one winners can run in group two races on their first outing of a new season. I think this would be greatly improved if it could be group three races too, and as opposed to being just their first run of the season, I think it should be that they can run in lower graded races until they win or place in a group one that season.

Edit: Sorry if I'm going on too much, blame the lockdown! Perhaps another idea would be if after a certain amount of time horses can drop in grade, for example if horses don't run for 3 months, they can run in a group two as a prep run for a grade one as they are needing a run? I think there must be a way to implement it without causing horses to have too erratic form.

Also, there is quite a big problem with race preps, if a race is a prep for two races that fall close together, the horses always run in whichever of the target races comes first. For example, if the awesome again stakes is a prep for the dirt mile and the classic, the horse will run in the dirt mile if the dirt mile is run before the classic (which it is in real life), or if the Nassau stakes is a prep for the prix de l'opera and the arc, they will always run in the prix de l'opera because it comes first. This shouldn't be the case, it should be on the basis of which trip best suits the horse, or the prize money.

There is also quite a lot of cases still of horses running in two races on the same day, I know this is a bug that has been mentioned before.

Thanks!


Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:36 pm
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:47 am
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Location: London
Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
qwsa wrote:
I do agree, and can see how it would be unreliable and could lead to erratic form, which is why I thought maybe if it was only group 2 races that were prepped with group one races for example. And you are right that its rarely seen, its in trying to create realistic schedules for international countries like Hong Kong and Japan that I thought it would be useful. For example, in Hong Kong group one winners often run in group 2's and even 3's, Beauty Generations is an example of this. Likewise in Japan, derby winners may often run in a group 2 prep for the St Leger, and there are a few other examples from these countries, whereas it is obviously rarely seen in Europe, so it may not be the best suggestion, but if there were a way to control it it may be helpful in some cases.


The racing scene in Hong Kong is very different though. There are fewer top class races available and a smaller pool of horses, meaning many horses run more frequently. Also, there is no breeding in Hong Kong, so taking risks with top class horses carrying penalties in lower-grade races isn't going to affect any stud fee, as the males are all geldings.

Regarding Japan, their penalties system is different, so many of the G1 winners that go on to run in G2 races are not carrying any penalties. If they had to carry penalties in these races, it would happen far less frequently. This also applies to some of the G2 races during the Dubai Carnival.


Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:58 pm
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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
Good points!


Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:02 pm
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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
Regarding this, there are horses who may win a group one, but fail to really be able to compete in group one company afterwards, in these cases, these horses should be dropping in grade, however Panthers points are very valid! And I should add this is not a major issue, just a thought for an area of slight improvement.


Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:30 pm
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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
qwsa wrote:
Regarding this, there are horses who may win a group one, but fail to really be able to compete in group one company afterwards, in these cases, these horses should be dropping in grade, however Panthers points are very valid! And I should add this is not a major issue, just a thought for an area of slight improvement.


I agree. In real life, penalties in UK flat racing only last a few months. Just looking at the UK flat pattern book for 2020, and penalties are applied as follows:

Races up until 30 June: Penalties only applied based on horses' performances after 31 August 2019.
Races from 1 July to 31 August: Penalties only applied based on horses' performances since the start of 2020.
Races from 1 September onwards: Penalties only applied based on horses' performances since 31 March 2020.

No idea how easy it would be for Mark to implement something like this, but I guess you'd be looking at three key dates each year:

1 January (or first day of schedule): All results prior to 31 August of previous year ignored in terms of penalties and AI entries
1 July: All results of previous year ignored in terms of penalties and AI entries
1 September: All results prior to 31 March ignored in terms of penalties and AI entries

To be honest, the last one probably wouldn't even be needed.


Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:44 pm
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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
I've noticed a difference in fillies and mares between SO6 and SO7, in SO7 they seem to be much better, being in most cases much better than male horses and they also seem to target open races more often instead of fillies and mares races. I think this is not as realistic as in SO6, is there a reason for these changes that could be reverted to how it was?


Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:27 pm
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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
Mark, I've realised that if trying to make 4YOUP races just for male horses by putting the sex as CG, you only get geldings running, as the game doesn't count any male horses older than 3 as colts. I think this must be wrong, there should be a way to restrict races for older horses to just male horses, not only geldings.
Also, to have races not allowing geldings to enter, such as the Arc, at the moment theres no way to restrict geldings from entering an open race for older horses. Perhaps another option of H for horse would be best? Then for a race like the Arc we could use CHFM, maybe?


Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:31 pm
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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
Is it necessary to have all foreign horses retire after their 6 year old season? couldn't they be as the main locality horses and retire at different ages so some retire younger?


Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:35 pm
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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
qwsa wrote:
Mark, I've realised that if trying to make 4YOUP races just for male horses by putting the sex as CG, you only get geldings running, as the game doesn't count any male horses older than 3 as colts. I think this must be wrong, there should be a way to restrict races for older horses to just male horses, not only geldings.
Also, to have races not allowing geldings to enter, such as the Arc, at the moment theres no way to restrict geldings from entering an open race for older horses. Perhaps another option of H for horse would be best? Then for a race like the Arc we could use CHFM, maybe?


Yeah, this is definitely an issue, and it obviously affects 3YOUP races where the sex is restricted to CG as well, where you might get some 3YO colts entering, but any horse 4YO and above will be a gelding. These races should be open to all male horses, not just those that have been gelded.

Also, related to this, in the context of horse racing, 4YO should still be referred to as colts and fillies, and their description shouldn't change to stallion or mare until they reach 5yo. Obviously the exception to this will be that males can become geldings at any age.


Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:16 am
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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
There still seems to be the very significant issue of no 2YO Novice races appearing from July to December inclusive. They appear regularly in the 2YO schedule until the end of June, then just stop abruptly. This obviously means very few options for 2YO winners that are below listed class in the second half of the season. Novice races for 2YO should appear throughout the year (from the Brocklesby meeting onwards), gradually increasing in the spread of distances available as the year progresses, in the same way that this works for 2YO Maiden races.

The availability of Maiden and Novice races for 3YO seems to be working pretty well with the most recent patch.


Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:27 am
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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
Quote:
Mark, I've realised that if trying to make 4YOUP races just for male horses by putting the sex as CG, you only get geldings running, as the game doesn't count any male horses older than 3 as colts. I think this must be wrong, there should be a way to restrict races for older horses to just male horses, not only geldings.


Older male hoses that are not geldings are classed as Stallions so 'SG' should work. Let me know if it doesn't.

To add to this there is a mix of code that could result in Colts becoming Stallions at 4 or 5. Mainly 4. This must be a bug and I'll adjust it all to 5.


Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:42 am
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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
Mark wrote:
Older male hoses that are not geldings are classed as Stallions so 'SG' should work. Let me know if it doesn't.


I just tried this, and unfortunately it results in no runners at all. Also tried CSG and CGS, which both also resulted in no runners. It doesn't seem to recognise the letter S in the sex category, and therefore seems to think that no horses are eligible.

Is it possible to update it to allow a C in the sex category to refer to a male horse of any age that is not gelded? This obviously wouldn't affect the current main use of the C for 2yo and 3yo races, as those races are age-restricted anyway. It would allow the very small number of races for older horses that are restricted to males to work properly though, such as the Royal Windsor and Sovereign Stakes. It might also give us the option to more accurately categorise the Arc as 3yo+ CFM!


Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:12 pm
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Post Re: Improvements to schedule and AI
A patch has just been released that may help with some of these issues. I'll have to look at the 'S' flag for Stallions.


Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:58 pm
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