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SO8 - if it happens
https://www.startersorders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=19926
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Author:  neves_rats [ Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  SO8 - if it happens

Ok, my main requirement if I am to purchase any further versions of the game is for it to come with a proper schedule, updated and designed to accommodate the needs of a growing stable. I do not accept that you should write your own or rely on forum members to supply a suitable schedule, the game maker should provide a decent stock one on release, and then members can tweak to their heart's content.

I think the graphics, especially the hurdles and fences on the NH side need improving. There was no improvement from 6 to 7.

The commentary and the betting markets are a mess.

Am sure there's more but these are the main ones I thought of after my major gripe about the schedule.

Author:  Tomas [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

neves_rats wrote:
Ok, my main requirement if I am to purchase any further versions of the game is for it to come with a proper schedule, updated and designed to accommodate the needs of a growing stable. I do not accept that you should write your own or rely on forum members to supply a suitable schedule, the game maker should provide a decent stock one on release, and then members can tweak to their heart's content.

I think the graphics, especially the hurdles and fences on the NH side need improving. There was no improvement from 6 to 7.

The commentary and the betting markets are a mess.

Am sure there's more but these are the main ones I thought of after my major gripe about the schedule.


I agree with you neves, the game will need a bit of sorting out but if we are to expect mark to do all the above work on SO8 that you are talking about, then we must pay the price as moding the game is been done for free by players that really enjoy doing it and sharing their work because of their good hearts, so if mark is going to do that work, I say the game would cost up to 70 to 80 pounds easy, I enjoy moding the game to tell you the truth I don't mind doing the work, on the flip side, I don't mind paying 80 pounds either, I think we all had an easy ride on the back of this game asking more and more of the author for really peanuts, but hey it's my opinion

Author:  neves_rats [ Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

Tomas wrote:
neves_rats wrote:
Ok, my main requirement if I am to purchase any further versions of the game is for it to come with a proper schedule, updated and designed to accommodate the needs of a growing stable. I do not accept that you should write your own or rely on forum members to supply a suitable schedule, the game maker should provide a decent stock one on release, and then members can tweak to their heart's content.

I think the graphics, especially the hurdles and fences on the NH side need improving. There was no improvement from 6 to 7.

The commentary and the betting markets are a mess.

Am sure there's more but these are the main ones I thought of after my major gripe about the schedule.


I agree with you neves, the game will need a bit of sorting out but if we are to expect mark to do all the above work on SO8 that you are talking about, then we must pay the price as moding the game is been done for free by players that really enjoy doing it and sharing their work because of their good hearts, so if mark is going to do that work, I say the game would cost up to 70 to 80 pounds easy, I enjoy moding the game to tell you the truth I don't mind doing the work, on the flip side, I don't mind paying 80 pounds either, I think we all had an easy ride on the back of this game asking more and more of the author for really peanuts, but hey it's my opinion


I have to disagree Tomas, in a friendly way of course. The game , SO7, was advertised as offering stable sizes up to 512 horses, another step forward in maximum size, however, the schedule was already outdated and was woefully inadequate for the game being marketed. As the schedule is a major integral part of the game, then by definition, it should be fit for purpose, which it clearly wasn't. It shouldn't be down to individual players, or the community, to provide a decent schedule, the game should already have one. It is like Football Manager arriving without a properly worked out set of matchdays that fit all fixtures needed, and the writers of said game saying, as Mark has done, if you want one that works properly write it yourself.

As for 80 quid for a game, I would permanently walk away. Not many games are worth £80, Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 was, but that's chalk and cheese for the amount of coding and server space compared to SO7. For a niche game I believe Starters Orders is priced correctly, I just think there are areas of the game that have been neglected over the past few incarnations that desperately need looking at. Either that or I can just continue with SO7 and its limitations but it wont at least cost me any more money. There's a lot of game left in it, I've only started one save and am still playing it.

Author:  Long Haul Harry [ Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

Wow neves_rats. I was thinking yesterday and again this morning about how I might add something to your thread. And your latest response contains much of what I would have written (including a reference to Football Manager).

I too disagree with you Tomas - but would also genuinely add that I can understand the enjoyment you and other modders get from SO7. You clearly have much more history with this game than I do - but I like to think I fly a rather limp flag for the relative newbies, and people like neves_rats who wants to play a slow detailed game.

The developer has stated on a couple of occasions now that he is busy developing SO7 for other platforms and that there will be no SO8 anytime soon. There has been hints that some of this work might be introduced to SO7 on laptops/steam but who knows. Nevers-rats stole my thunder by saying he will continue with SO7 with its limitations and that is how I feel. I am busy re-designing my 25 season save to fit in with those limitations and may even start a new save or two but definitely will be careful before spending anymore money. Too many 'features' have not been nailed. And thoughts of SO8 with even more trimmings does nothing for me right now.

The thing I had intended to say about Football Manager was along these lines too. At the end of the last century I was playing Championship Manager for thousands of hours and loved it. A dozen years later it became Football Manager with detailed features which were simply trip ups for the player. Things that made the game more realistic but considerably less playable and enjoyable. A similar thing in SO8 would be injured jockeys, or maybe meetings cancelled due to bad weather. Great stuff in the reality stakes but more reasons to want to throw your laptop out of the window. I later had five years playing EU4. Ten DLC's later, I realised the game was nowhere near as enjoyable as earlier versions and I very rarely play it these days.

And this I think is what has possibly happened between SO6 and SO7. The latest version is more realistic but less enjoyable maybe and certainly many regular contributors to these boards have disappeared. The modders are still happy. And the online players. But newer players can't really understand why the breeding is so random and unrewarding. Why notes cannot be added to horses from all screens. Why you can't sell horses other than in end of day auctions. Why you can set special training but it never really seems to do anything.

So, if there were to be a SO8 just make it more playable. Give new trainers £10 million in the bank right at the start and a breeding barn. Most newbies just do the money cheat anyway and the alternative is fifty hours working through treacle. Make horse development more visible. And if we can't have more races, at least give us some that fit all shapes and sizes in the yard. And genuine easier and harder levels that go beyond the number of horses you start the game with.

Anyway, I will continue with the game as it is, and only the developer can decide where he wants to take his game. It is his product and I will respect him, and those who have played this game for years and therefore see things from a totally different angle to me.

Author:  Tomas [ Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

I am sorry but I don't know what your currency is compered to our Australian dollar, I honestly see your points guys and do agree with you both, But what dose someone do when there not heard?
I leave many of posts but he won't answer so I don't know anymore.
Mark please answer this post.

Author:  neves_rats [ Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

Tomas wrote:
I am sorry but I don't know what your currency is compered to our Australian dollar, I honestly see your points guys and do agree with you both, But what dose someone do when there not heard?
I leave many of posts but he won't answer so I don't know anymore.
Mark please answer this post.


The general answer Tomas is that you vote with your feet when you're not heard, and, going by how few posts there are on the forum these days, and how few newbies or relative newbies there are posting, I would guess the polling booths are open. This is all a shame. I have been playing since before Starters Orders began, when the game was called Stable Masters, the company back then also did a Football Manager game amongst others I think I remember accurately. As I have stated previously in threads, I am a reformed ex addicted gambler and this game is where I now get my enjoyment from racing, and the fact that I am still playing daily shows I haven't fallen out of love with it, shall we just say we've started taking each other for granted and some of the old sparkle has diminished and I've begun having the odd fling elsewhere :roll: :roll: .

The game, for the niche that it is in, is heads and shoulders above any competition, that has never been the problem, however, the schedule has been a major bug bear for years and holds the game back massively once you have a decent sized stable, and especially if you play slowly and in depth as myself and Harry do. Our games aren't about just breeding the lines to death in search of unbeatable monsters, it's more based on realism. Yes a decent horse or two a season is nice, but there's just as much enjoyment from taking a slow maturing horse through the ranks from winning a seller and then plotting a successful career through the handicaps. Unfortunately there are woefully too few races to run these types in, yet, in a slow run in depth game, these types make up probably the majority of your stable.

Perhaps the schedule etc has come as far as it can, I sincerely hope not.

Author:  Tomas [ Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

neves, I played Stable Masters back then I think there was more people working with mark back then, I also board the snooker game then.
neves lets wait and see what mark is working on it might be good for all of us, you know neves all of you people are like a family to me know, God it's been 21 years mate, I hate seeing you guys go and not come back, I might argue some times with some people on here but I love them all, it's been a life time together, lets all wait mate and be calm.

Mark! Please answer the posts please.

Author:  neves_rats [ Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

Tomas wrote:
neves, I played Stable Masters back then I think there was more people working with mark back then, I also board the snooker game then.
neves lets wait and see what mark is working on it might be good for all of us, you know neves all of you people are like a family to me know, God it's been 21 years mate, I hate seeing you guys go and not come back, I might argue some times with some people on here but I love them all, it's been a life time together, lets all wait mate and be calm.

Mark! Please answer the posts please.


I have a feeling mobile is where the game is going, at least at the present time I believe that is Mark's focus.

I'll be here mate, no doubt complaining as I have the right to do as I purchased the game, and hoping for a decent game based schedule that will rekindle some of the lost fire for the game.

Author:  Tomas [ Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

neves, if mark goes mobile, that will be the end for me mate, as I don't have a mobile phone and never used one in my life :lol:
every body laughs at me when I tell them that, they can't believe it, I have an earth line and an old phone that's about 35 years old, how in Gods name am I going to play the game that I love hah!! Mark? now don't be silly OK :lol:

Author:  neves_rats [ Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

Tomas wrote:
neves, if mark goes mobile, that will be the end for me mate, as I don't have a mobile phone and never used one in my life :lol:
every body laughs at me when I tell them that, they can't believe it, I have an earth line and an old phone that's about 35 years old, how in Gods name am I going to play the game that I love hah!! Mark? now don't be silly OK :lol:


Think it's just another string to his bow, it is a booming marketplace, be a shame if the PC game gets side tracked as appears to have been the case, the list of fixes appears to have had very little progress on it.

Author:  Long Haul Harry [ Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

I have always thought mobile games to be for busy people - those who dip in and out when they can, on busses, in waiting rooms at stations or in the canteen at work during a tea break. The SO7 I know would not fit those environments at all, so if changes are being made in that direction they must be massive. Mobile games I imagine must also work properly - users are not going to wait long for fixes. But what do I know. I am a bit more advanced than Tomas, but not much.

Like you neves_rats I have today been unfaithful - in my case with an old flame that I thought I would never go back to. It has cost me money but hopefully I can get back into that game, which I enjoyed for many years.

Author:  craigywatt [ Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

Long Haul Harry wrote:
I have always thought mobile games to be for busy people - those who dip in and out when they can, on busses, in waiting rooms at stations or in the canteen at work during a tea break. The SO7 I know would not fit those environments at all, so if changes are being made in that direction they must be massive. Mobile games I imagine must also work properly - users are not going to wait long for fixes. But what do I know. I am a bit more advanced than Tomas, but not much.

Like you neves_rats I have today been unfaithful - in my case with an old flame that I thought I would never go back to. It has cost me money but hopefully I can get back into that game, which I enjoyed for many years.


You're basically correct. I work in mobile games and they're not designed for long and in depth play sessions like you would do on PC.

There is a bit of a market for paid games, which then can be balanced properly and don't need to be redesigned to accommodate free to play mechanics - see Football Manager as an example. It is, however, a pretty small share of the market.

I don't see a way for Starters Orders to really become successful on mobile , at least not in its current format.

- Paid version that's basically the same as the current PC version - Too niche, no logical progression or onboarding, very high barrier to acquiring new users (paid download)

- You could do a proper freemium version of a game like SO but it would need to be basically an entirely different game. It'd also need to be dumbed down BIG TIME to appeal to a wide enough market for Mark to make a permanent income.

I just don't see it happening. It's a super competitive space and is not really suited to niche games that are pretty hardcore.

Author:  Long Haul Harry [ Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

Interesting comments craigywatt.

Strange you mentioned FM, because it was that game I bought back into last week after a seven year absence. Because there are now different versions on offer, I researched before buying. Mobile was never an option for me because my lifestyle doesn't warrant it but I checked out the reviews nonetheless. Overall it seems to have been well received. The most negatives seemed to be around 'parts missing' from the full fat version (as would likely be the case with SO7 mobile). But pretty much every issue/bug had a response from the FM developers. I know it is ridiculous to compare FM development time with SO development time, but that would be the world the game moved into.

Author:  dwhit55 [ Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

neves_rats wrote:
Ok, my main requirement if I am to purchase any further versions of the game is for it to come with a proper schedule, updated and designed to accommodate the needs of a growing stable. I do not accept that you should write your own or rely on forum members to supply a suitable schedule, the game maker should provide a decent stock one on release, and then members can tweak to their heart's content.

I think the graphics, especially the hurdles and fences on the NH side need improving. There was no improvement from 6 to 7.

The commentary and the betting markets are a mess.

Am sure there's more but these are the main ones I thought of after my major gripe about the schedule.


Unfortunately I agree on this also - SO7 is a flop & not a chance on earth can I see SO8 happening - if it does I am out !

Since SO7 has been released the forum has gone severely quite in comparison to previous versions - (I have seen 13 Topics with not one reply created this year alone with 100s of views) which says it all in my opinion regarding the game?

How is a newbie supposed to get in to the game if a topic is created & nobody responds but the topic gets 100s of views? :?

I just haven't enjoyed SO7 as much as the previous games and there seems to be no chance of this improving in the near & distant future.

I agree regarding the schedules, its a shambles I'm sure they are the same as SO4 (copy and paste job) :lol: :lol:

Author:  neves_rats [ Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SO8 - if it happens

dwhit55 wrote:
neves_rats wrote:
Ok, my main requirement if I am to purchase any further versions of the game is for it to come with a proper schedule, updated and designed to accommodate the needs of a growing stable. I do not accept that you should write your own or rely on forum members to supply a suitable schedule, the game maker should provide a decent stock one on release, and then members can tweak to their heart's content.

I think the graphics, especially the hurdles and fences on the NH side need improving. There was no improvement from 6 to 7.

The commentary and the betting markets are a mess.

Am sure there's more but these are the main ones I thought of after my major gripe about the schedule.


Unfortunately I agree on this also - SO7 is a flop & not a chance on earth can I see SO8 happening - if it does I am out !

Since SO7 has been released the forum has gone severely quite in comparison to previous versions - (I have seen 13 Topics with not one reply created this year alone with 100s of views) which says it all in my opinion regarding the game?

How is a newbie supposed to get in to the game if a topic is created & nobody responds but the topic gets 100s of views? :?

I just haven't enjoyed SO7 as much as the previous games and there seems to be no chance of this improving in the near & distant future.

I agree regarding the schedules, its a shambles I'm sure they are the same as SO4 (copy and paste job) :lol: :lol:


Have to agree with you mate on the schedules being from SO4. What really got my back up was the trumpeting in the improvements listed for SO7 that the maximum stable size had been increased to 512 and there then being no change whatsoever to the number of races on the schedule. When I complained I was basically told to write my own schedule.

It's a real shame. As you say activity on the forum is well down on previous issues and the game seems to have tailed off big time.

The improvements requested for SO7, some of which Mark said were being worked on, just don't look like happening.

Really hope the game doesn't just drift away and die a slow death

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