Came to attention during a comm yesterday that returning Graded horses on the hunt do not carry a penalty into the next year, which I am surprised we had not picked up before, but then it is very rare that those with G winning form enter a horse from a previous season. (This may have come up before and I missed the outcome)

As it is a separate file and the new file each trainer uploads does not have the previous seasons form from the league within it, there is no way of editing that part or telling the RK.

Alex's suggests putting up max rating in G2,3's to 150 for instance which will hopefully stop any G1 horses from entering those or better still, those that have returned horses with previous G1/G2 winning form from last season, just dont enter G2,G3's as you would be gaining an unfair advantage and I am sure you do not want your wins jaded, as the comms will point out each time

Not much else can be done as would need a recode of TOM if that’s even possible.

Saw this post but never knew how to respond to it until now.

This subject has been brought up before. I think it applies to both flat and NH. There was never any decision made about it.

I am not in favour of setting G2 & G3 limits to 150. This would prevent anyone whose horse was not returning and had done well in the current year from entering the race.

I am not up to speed on exactly what G1 penalties are for each code but maybe just add extra h'cap points\weight to the returning horse. The horse would carry this extra all season. Would make things slightly more complicated for the handicapper but there can't be very many horses who would fit into this category.

Jim

Doesn’t appear anyone is too bothered and I thought it must of been spotted before Jim.
I’m guessing down to trainers, if they want to steal a lower Graded race without a penalty and if no one minds then best left as is.
It is rare that elite trainers bring back anything anyhow, hence subject only comes up now and again.

I think bringing them back is the penalty, adding extra would make it just about impossible for them .

Totally disagree with this statement.

If I have a 7yo in the NH who is a G1 winner, I will only bring them back at 8yo if I think they perform better at 8yo or just maybe I would bring them back if they performed at 8yo equal to 7yo performance.

If a horse has won a G1 race in the league at any age it deserves to carry that penalty at all ages.

I don't follow horse racing in real life but does an older horse lose a penalty gained at a younger age?

I keep seeing people saying they want this "game" to be as realistic as possible. Will it be realistic if a horse loses a penalty?


Maybe my attitude towards this game is different from others but I upload the majority of my horses to try and win races. It may be some people upload horses just to see them run. I want all races to be a fair competition, that is why we have h'caps, is it fair to make it easier for a good horse to win?

Well I 100% disagree with u, mostly they don't carry a penalty a year after they win a group race. There are some races where they do.

All horses ccoming back are up against it whether they are hcappers or graded horses. Only the season before best horses have a chance , they would have even less chance if they had to carry a 7 pound penalty. We trying to encourage horses to come back not to weigh them down.

U do a study of the horses who comeback and how many group races they win. Josh monster haven't don't to bad over jumps, but that's because they are great horses and Jumps are different.

Hi John

We could discuss this and probably never agree as we have totally opposite views on this but it is good to have different views as it gives a different perspective on what we want from the league. I wonder what others think. Sometimes discussions like this revolve around a couple of people's views and that can give a very narrow view.

Just one point I am curious about.




Who is trying to bring horses back and why are we trying to bring horses back?

From my point of view, I am trying to upload my best horses, not bring back horses for the sake of it. I don't understand a fascination with returning horses.

The joy of watching horses go again a year later, even if they're not yours means we surely should encourage a few more to come back. Very few Group1 horses tend to be good enough again by the tome a new season starts. I'd say missing the penalty isn't that big a deal. If you're using the same horse a year older in the league, it's more likely that it's because your game has stagnated, than it is that horse has improved from 7 to 8. Usually that would just mean the 8yo was uploaded in the first place

Some of my fav achievements were bringing my two champs Lochsong and Coigach back ,I even brought Lochsong back for a 3rd term.

It's not all about winning Jim.

A little story from my past.

I worked in IT most of my life. About 35 years ago I did some sub-contract work for a company who had M.O.D. contracts. For the three years of my contract, all us sub-contractors had to undergo mandatory psych evaluations. (Not supposed to talk about this but it was 35 years ago and I think it was security related).
My evaluations mostly said the same thing, I was Goal Orientated and Obsessive Desire to do the Absolute Best Job Possible. There were a few other things but not relevant here.

35 years later I guess this still influences all my actions in all my daily life, even at 70 years old, translate this to the league, I want to win the trainers championship and win every single race my horses enter.

It is not just the league where this is true. I play golf most mornings with 7 friends. We laugh and joke and take the piss out of one another but we usually split into teams and I want always to win, even in a friendly competition. Just my nature.

So yes John, for me it is all about winning.

Well Jim we are totally different , totally different ends of the spectrum. I really don't care about winning, it's all about having some fun. Life is short and winning doesn't define who we are.

We all different

Question for u, what happens when u dont win

I agree with John bringing them back is the penalty. Every horse I have brought back has been inferior to the previous year. The game moves on and you get better horses. People will be reluctant to bring back horses if they have penalties. I know I won't bring any back

How didn't u put in any horses.

It must be my psychy but I can't understand the fascination with bringing back horses who are not competetive. Why bring back horses you think are inferior to newer horses.

As I said above my psychy tells me to upload horses who are the best I have and not upload returning horses if they are not the best you have.

I guess most people have a different attitude than I do, I still think that if bring back a G1 winner, that horse will have a G1 penalty.

To be honest it would not bother me if there were never any returning horses as I can't see any point if you know they are inferior to newer horses.

There'd be no league at all if most people thought like that though Jim. Anyone not winning just wouldn't enter. Winning is great, I am very competitive myself, but in the end, this is just a game, an the league is the most enjoyable part of the game.

Making it enjoyable for everyone, not just people winning all the time, is the most important thing in keeping it going. Familiarity with horses creating a legacy definitely keeps people who aren't winning group1s, enjoying watching them

On the flat I would love to have seen Heart of Oak come back an do as well. I'd have obviously wanted to beat her, but if not then I wouldn't mind her winning.

My favourite horse ever in the league is Osaka Play. He wasnt my most talented by any means, although he was a beast of a stallion. He won group1's at 2, 3 an 4 in the league. Kind of goes under the radar, but to me, that was an insane achievement