Dear Mr Handicapper, pretty please, could you have a close look at two of my horses h'caps after the races this week.

Druid Prince and Lexicon Wood are handicapped at 103 and 102. They have both had one good race and two absolute stinkers of races. The only race they can enter this week is race 39 and it's a G1 race which if I understand your philosophy means they are treated harsher for handicap purposes.

I can't get them into lesser races, too high a h'cap. If they have another stinker maybe drop them to 99 h'cap so they can enter races that might give a truer reflection of their ability.

My personal opinion is Druid Prince is probably about 90-95 h'cap and Lexicon Wood about 80-85 h'cap.

Thanks Vinny.

I'll have a glance now mate. If I'm honest tho, me you an Josh, if we are close to a Handicap limit, i.e. 0-90, 0-95, 0-100 I tend to go just over so we cant enter it in that handicap off top weight. It may be that. I'm trying to do the exact same for all 3. But I'll defo look now

Having looked I'll defintely see what happens this week. Try an remind me to pay special attention to them. Druids Prince looks like its a style issue, ran a race worthy of an even higher mark than 103 when he was held up. The other 2 times hes gone steaming off an collapsed in a heap. Think that Maiden was very good tho, an the horses around it quite highly rated. I'll defo have a look this week an adjust as an overall for 4 races rather than that particular race. Lexicon could be a distance thing, winning the maiden at 1m6, an failing twice over 2m. I'll check that 1m7 result this week an adjust slightly more if it fails again

Thanks Vinny

I agree with most of what you are saying. I felt in my home trials that both horses were 1m 7f horses, most of the time 1m 6f was too short and 2 miles was pushing them to the limit. This weeks race at 1m 7f is their ideal distance so should really show their ability compared to the other horses in the field.
I know my 1m 6f plus horses are by far the weakest part of my stable.
The other point you raise about style, it may be the case that if they were to run at an even pace in a race their h'caps would be correct.

I have mentioned this a few times in the post race trainers comments thread. Too many of my horses are hitting the front very early in the race and fading badly at the end of the race. This is weird because Druid Surfer was the only race handy horse I uploaded, all the rest were even pace horses.
What is also strange, a few like Classic Action, an even pace horse, hit the front early in the Kentucky Derby and stayed on strongly.
Just an odd thought, what if every other horse in the race is a heldup horse, would that make my even pace horse a front runner?

Hi Vinny,

Dont think you can change handicaps now, just before week 4. If you can, I was wondering why Forerunner is still sub 90. Yes this is a reverse comment to the normal lower my horse haha.

Want to race in the Preakness and has won a Listed and 3rd in a group 3.

Feel free to lower all my other horses haha

Come on boys u shouldn't be swaying the hcapper so u can get in lower races. If u want to be a top trainer on the flat then u have to play the game fairly . Not trying to get u horses into races u horses shouldn't be in

Im trying to get into a group race

Blimey Jim, you have to take the rough with the smooth, what about your "Classic Crusade" wins decent maiden follows up with a 2nd in a 0-100 and still only on 87, I have a horse with two maiden runs 7th & 13th and is rated 89.

the handicapper shouldn't be asked to try and change handicap marks of your horses, with people suggesting what mark they should be, he has a system, same as everyone who has done it.

I have seen all these comments this morning and it has made me absolutely mad. I was going to reply then but decided to wait until I had calmed down.

When I saw these comments I was going to walk away from the league and never come back. I am still of half a mind to do so.

I am furious that I have been accused of trying to CHEAT to win races.

I asked a legitimate question and was willing to accept any decision the handicapper made.

Vinny has openly stated that he treats his horses, Josh's horses and my horses different from all other trainers horses. I have never complained about that discrimination. Maybe I should complain and insist my horses are treated the same as all other trainers horses, but I won't.

I uploaded 3 horses whose names all start with Lexicon. The father plus his son and daughter. In my home trials there was nothing to chose between the three of them. The father and son have h'caps in the 70's. While I accept that the racekit does throw up some anomalies, I am sceptical that the daughter is 30 points better than the other two horses. I merely asked Vinny to have a look at her in her next race.

In hindsight, the other horse I asked Vinny to look at is probably close to his correct mark.


It is not a nice feeling to be accused of CHEATING, no matter how indirectly.


Jim

C'mon Jim, no one anywhere has accused you of cheating!

I was stating you have some good marks and some bad marks, that is the way of the league and is the same for everybody, asking the capper why is fine, and to disagree is also fine, but suggesting what you should have is a bit cheeky!

If there is not a race that is perfect, either dont run it or put it in something not ideal, the league schedule is not set up so there is a perfect race for our horses every week, sometimes they don’t get a run unless they go elsewhere, too much of this "I should be able to place all 25 of my horses every week"

Think it's all just a bit of banter, no reason to be getting upset. I honestly dont mind being asked about the handicap marks. I'll always try an justify it, but I'll also hold my hands up an say when I'm wrong, so no one should be afraid to ask the question.

I do treat me Jim an Josh slightly differently when it comes to our lower rated horses, I don't know if this is right or wrong tbh, but it seems best for the league itself to me.

I have a 2yo rated at 65 in a handicap this week, I'm actually embarrassed as I think it's been running over the wrong distance, if it hacks up I'll be putting it up about 40lbs an apologising to everyone. It wasn't deliberate, but I did upload for 6f, an I think it may be a 7f horse now.

I do have a system, but it's a very fluid system, so I'm happy to double check things. I use 1 horse every race, usually one finishing 4th or 5th who's handicap I wont be changing, an all the others are handicapped around that. That tells me how strong the race is.

You can certainly ask why a horse has been given a certain mark, an I'll happily explain. I may even agree an change as needed. It's easy to miss things, especially in lowering the marks, this tends to be tougher to get done.

I'll look at this in a sec mate, an maybe ask Alex to put a manual entry in if it does need adjusting?

I think it's opening race is what's kept the rating down, second race was a good effort, but had to mark it based off both. I'm not sure it beat too much in the 3rd race, but can only beat whats in front I guess

I'd be happy for Alex to overide an put a manual entry into the group1 if you wanted to ask him

i entered it