We used to have Restricted races in the league which were open to trainers with less than a certain amount of winners, the number of wins allowed was reviewed on a weekly basis and increased as trainers got more winners. These were scrapped when Steve took on the handicapper role and brought in more levels of handicap races which were supposed to make it easier for the lesser horses to get a win. This was a bad move IMO as Restricted races were like a second division aimed at the less successful trainers who could compete with other trainers of a similar level without the big guns plundering the races as they can do in handicaps.
I'm quite happy with what rich has put forward.

As long as its not split into certain players thats fine. If a new trainer gets a horse to win 2 races and is rated high they should be allowed to race in group races? Do you mean 2 divisions of horses or actual trainers?

Yeah if it was two divisions like football with trainers like teams it would be very hard because where do you draw the line? Wherever that line is whoever is above it gets destroyed and whoever is below it wins lots of races. Have to be careful.

I'm going on holiday for a couple of weeks shortly, I'll put a rough schedule together by the pool and see what people think. I really want to keep the number of horses down because it forces people to be selective, if someone has good stayers then they can have a 2 2m horses that like different ground or courses and seek out those individual wins

I agree we should try max 15 horses i feel 30 was too much and made it even easier for the top trainers being able to have one horse for each distance and ground

Schedules

I think the NH Schedule is great just needs 5-6 races to be changing to Restricted races to make it even easier for some trainers to get even more wins in the league

UKRA is great too just too many races needs to get down to NHC side with about 28 races with about 5-6 of them beeing Restricted races too

welcome greyhawk

some fair points there

i do think the new rules are going to be off putting for new trainers like you

i hope Rich will reply to your concerns im sure he will

but a warm welcome to the forum

I been thinking about the max 15 to a stable we could end up if trainers like me not entering the flat league with not enough trainers/runners and have small fields if not some walk overs bring down the amounts of races on the flat to the same size has the jumps is a good idea always thought 35 races on the flat was a bit to much.

Greyhawk, perhaps you can post under your other account(s) rather than create a new one?

If you could clarify your concerns that would be great too, on the one hand you are happy for there to be a "second division" of trainers if it's handicaps but on the other hand it's an "idiots" league. The story about getting into the John Smiths Cup is heartwarming but as you have never been here before, never played previous versions before ( I'll go along with the lie if you do?) I'm afraid it's very difficult for it to work out like that and your bottom of the handicap horse will be running alongside another horse with G1 ability that got a low mark in an earlier race and was laid out for this. You've been competing fairly and then boom, you get blown out of the water. My suggestion was that we have 6 weeks of racing, reduce the number of horses to reduce trainer options for being cute, see what marks all the horses are on then, and then chuck them into the mixer. This appears to be what you want, it's what you'll get but you don't like it?

15 races is proving a bit too tough in the flat on an initial assessment, 20 is looking like a weekly minimum.

busted

it was tongue in cheek mate dont take offence 2 the busted thing was only messing
my welcome was 100% genuine
and i agree with some of your points and i am also concened that the new rules will put off new players but rich knows what he is doing
he does a great job but do think more discussion and opinion taking could have happened b4 making changes but i am happy to go
with the new rules i will only be concentrating on 2 distances anyway.

Without a handicapper, changes had to be made. Last seasons handicaps weren't right, nor were adjustments to horses ratings post race. I think the changes a step in the right direction and im sure Rich is open to more discussion, I believe he has already taken on board some points made and changed of the the new suggestions.

There will be handicaps it's just to get to the fabled "Johns Smiths Cup" as bottom weight you'll be running your horse against those of similar ability rather than a series of heavy defeats.

Don't worry, it won't be called the "idiots" league. I was thinking of calling it "People with a life" league.

A handicapper is a must IMO I would do if i knew how.

I have no previous league experience to draw upon but I will participate in the league regardless of whether I feel my horses could compete or not.

If there is a way you could have 2 divisions then that would be really good. It may give the newer members and the not so hardcore players something to compete over other than being demolished against the hardcore trainers.

Whatever the decisions, for the new format, I will be there with my GG's

The way I envisage it is that there wont physically be two seperate leagues but instead there will be top quality races & hcaps which the better trainers will race in and there will be the run of the mill hcaps/maidens/conditions races that the rest will predominantly race in, much like real life. If a horse does better than expected in the league then there wont be anything to stop it competing at a higher level.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Exactly. If someone has one great horse and 19 donkeys I don't want them to be stuck in one league or another.

I have a feeling things are going to be much closer together if I'm honest in SO5. Breeding seems to be easier and therefore the possibility of getting a top class horse is increased. Many of the big names are taking a break and I really don't think handicaps will be necessary for a win.

Let me put a schedule together, I'll throw it out there to be shot at and improved and then we can take it from there.