Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
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nick_driver
Group 1 winner
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 2:07 pm Posts: 1224 Location: Redhill
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
Some better performances... and some worse performances on day 3. Congrats all on winners and placers, Jim, smashed it in Dubai and good to see James, who I used to have running battles with in the lowly handicaps back in the day has risen to the top as well.
A few positive performances from Cactus Jack, Mastermind, Marie Curie and Lucky Moon over the week, who tend to be the most consistent in CK anyway, mixed in with a lot of "Outpaced" and just plugging on at the back of the main pack. Plenty there who could be well treated though and could pick up a few early handicaps.
Disco Heaven (7th) - Stayed on very strongly at the end of 1m5f which is probably his distance really, so happy with that run. Suprastar is much better than Disco so hope for her as well despite her poor showing.
Master Line (6th) - Not sure what happened there, looked bang in contention and then next second, fallen out of the back of the screen.
Cactus Jack (2nd) - Well, nice to get a place finally and in a maiden too, didn't look like stopping (which makes a nice change compared to the rest of the string!) and may improve for the step up to 1m.
Rose Alley (16th) - Expected better, hopefully will have a good mark to work with going forward though.
Moon Crescent (12th) - Not as good as Rose Alley so to be expected really, will be waiting on handicaps.
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Thu May 30, 2024 9:11 am |
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Jim Murray
Handicapper
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 2:45 am Posts: 234 Location: Fife, Scotland
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
hopkins1994 wrote: Just as a side note how did you guys get so good at this game? Is there specific stats I need to look out for or is there a science behind breeding these monsters?
Not sure if your comment is part jest or not but on a serious note, the same important stats as before are still relevant. I think the green bars are most relevant in the flat game. My flat horses must have fullfilled 100% potential at 4yo. The majority have 97% plus potential at 3yo. Next I look at Extra Speed and Cruising Burst. At just about all distances, my horses have 85% extra speed and 65% cruising burst. I think that Confidence and Enthusiasm are important in NH horses. When it comes to trialling horses, the top trainers all have different methods. I trial at the end of every season. This league season, because I am targetting the Classics, I trial at the classic tracks and only breed the very best horses with the very best horses at each track\distance. I tend to keep breeding lines separate. Some trainers have hundreds of mares in the barn, I only have about 75 mares in my flat barn and about 15 stallions, the best of the best. If a horse does not perform well in the CK, it is retired from the game, no matter how good all the green bars look on paper. Most of my horses have been bred from horses that have done well in the league in previous seasons. Some trainers have menioned that they regularly go to the sales looking for a horse that can improve their breeding lines. My flat save is 95 seasons old. I don't think I have visited the sales in the last 30 seasons. If you do buy a horse at the sales, it may take two or three generations before a significant improvement shows in horse performance. When starting a new save, it is important to find horses with all the correct building blocks in the first few seasons of the save. The building blocks are potential, extra speed and cruising burst. If the building blocks are not there, I start a new save. In the first 20 seasons of a new save, I breed only for good bars. The next 10 seasons is where I start to look at CK performace. I usually have a big cull of the stable at that point, might only have 40 mares and 10 stallions left in the barn. Then it's breed best CK performer with best CK performer. One last thing, I think there is a hidden stat of some kind, Josh called it the "JuJu". This stat has a significant bearing on how a horse performs in the CK and the league. If you find a stallion with the juju, breed and breed with that horse. Hope this helps Jim
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Thu May 30, 2024 9:34 am |
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Munas23
Selling plater
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:24 pm Posts: 92
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
D Egan isn't allowed near my horses again. I know people most likely dont watch others horses that closely in a race but Fathers Day R28 - This jokey needs the sack. Raced 3 wide, pulled out to 5 wide for no real reason, then pulls horse up and moves it back to rail, only to bring the horse back out 5 wide, back to near the rail, only to come out wide in the straight. Came 5th and ran an extra furlong. Promising run/
Morning Ice Hero - 3rd over a distance she doesn't suit. Purple Pursuit showed enough with his 4th
My sprinters looked solid, Whispers ran 5 wide and came 2nd, South Island a nice 3rd
Where my interest levels were coming in was where my stayers ranked, and it looks promising. Battle Satrie 3rd and Alitude was flying home.
No wins but some good signs
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Thu May 30, 2024 10:15 am |
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kniesh
Group 2 winner
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:33 pm Posts: 870 Location: Nantwich
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
Disappointing day for me. Ithaca Circle in the Dubai World Cup a particular disappointment. Front running type, who clearly didn't get home. Of all my new type of horses since I changed me trials, only 1 won. It's pretty worrying. I fancy my league season is already over now because I completely changed my trialling at the last minute an got different results to normal. Back to normal at Dubai for me, I only usually pick up 1 or 2 wins at most there, an never the big races. last season was a freak result there with about 4 or 5 winners
A good sign from Yima Twister though. This is a freak at home over 5f, fancy it'll be my best horse in the limited races available to it. Yuma genes returning at 4 also looked good, dual runner up in English an Irish Guineas last season, he was right there in the finish on a track that didn't suit, despite running about 8 wide the whole way
Note to self, don't change something if it isn't broke
On a side note, is there a reason Ithaca Zitca wasn't run in the Old Vic Conditions races over 10f? He was down to run, an still showing in my stable as running in it, but never actually ran in it?
_________________ Vinny
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Thu May 30, 2024 11:09 am |
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Paul Parsons
Selling plater
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:15 am Posts: 96 Location: Perth Western Australia
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
Well week 1 was pretty much as I expected. I knew my NH team were rubbish and they didn't disappoint! I have managed to upload another chaser just before the deadline - Argyle Star. She's a couple of lengths better than the rest of my team so maybe she'll finish in the pack somewhere.
A couple of my flat stable showed real promise, so I genuinely have hopes of winning something with one or two of them as the season progresses and I still have about half a dozen or so who are yet to taste defeat (okay so they haven't run yet, but that's a minor detail!)
Thanks to everyone who makes this happen and congratulations to everyone who tasted success in week 1.
Paul
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Thu May 30, 2024 11:24 am |
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Jim Murray
Handicapper
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 2:45 am Posts: 234 Location: Fife, Scotland
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
kniesh wrote: On a side note, is there a reason Ithaca Zitca wasn't run in the Old Vic Conditions races over 10f? He was down to run, an still showing in my stable as running in it, but never actually ran in it? Hi Vinnie I didn't run the race but I did go to the race files in dropbox to have a look. For some reason Ithaca Zitca has not been included in dropbox in the list of runners when the race was created. I suspect it may have been a mistake, an oversight when the race was created. It was a conditions race, but don't actually know what the conditions were for the race. I can't see any reason why it was excluded from the race. I looked at your stable, the horse is listed as 4yo colt. Stupid question, is this definitely a colt? I think it is Alex who sets up the races, he may have a better answer. Jim
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Thu May 30, 2024 11:58 am |
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Githyanki
Group 1 winner
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:16 pm Posts: 2427
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
Quote: Just as a side note how did you guys get so good at this game? Is there specific stats I need to look out for or is there a science behind breeding these monsters? It’s a sprinkle of knowledge, a dash of applied learning and the a bucket load of time and luck. How you approach the first 20 seasons of a new game is vital to get the best out of it. NB - I have some of my approach to breeding etc on my discord channel with lineages, these are fairly self explanatory and show where I have built the core blocks into a line as my early set up uses simple naming conventions ‘Breeds Cruise’ ‘Breed needs speed’ etc.
Last edited by Githyanki on Thu May 30, 2024 1:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Thu May 30, 2024 1:14 pm |
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Githyanki
Group 1 winner
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:16 pm Posts: 2427
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
Quote: One last thing, I think there is a hidden stat of some kind, Josh called it the "JuJu". This stat has a significant bearing on how a horse performs in the CK and the league. If you find a stallion with the juju, breed and breed with that horse. Agree with 99% of what Jim has said above. But I would add i think it’s hidden stats, not just one thing, but you can’t see it so easier to think of it in terms of has or has not. I would also add, bad ck with good bars mixed with great ck, average bars can make a great ck with good bars. And it can skip a generation or two and still be carried in breeding, true on both codes. But a dud breeder is usually a dud breeder, some horses even great ck types simply don’t breed well.
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Thu May 30, 2024 1:25 pm |
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simpleminds
Group 1 winner
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:56 pm Posts: 5742 Location: uk
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
Finally a winner on day 3 Lots of my horses fell even two over hurdles i dont know why but my horses jumped so badly.
But a good Grade 3 Chase Winner at Saratoga was a highlight this horse was a Novice Chaser last season October Bay and won in week 1 and showed little after maybe ground dependant has it went through last season after debut win without winning and fell down to end with a 105 Rating so when it won it was a bigger surprise to me more than the Commentator who for some reason is calling it to rise 55pounds to 160 what Planet he's living on God knows Cheers Martin.
Gray
_________________simple in mind but wonderful in young lifehttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNzbn9 ... idx5pNkHaQ
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Thu May 30, 2024 1:27 pm |
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Githyanki
Group 1 winner
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:16 pm Posts: 2427
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
Great final day for me on both codes. 3 more wins on the flat, 8 for the first week is probably the highest return I have had on the flat and bodes very well for the season ahead, well beyond expectations. James Shea, who knew I’d have to account for him this season  . Some nice horses in your barn this year. And I am not writing off the big guns yet. Of specific note - You belong to me - not won at this distance for some time and certainly not been G1 level to take Dubai with a gritty front run was nice to watch. And Titillating, challenging wide round a bend still happy with his run, could have won that on any other day. NH 3 wins and a total of 7 is a nice return for the week with a lot of ground conditions that did not suit well, though I know Leon at least will also favour soft and heavy. The shock was how well my 2.4m hurdlers ran, 3 wins, since I felt this was my worst area or certainly one that had not improved. And 2.4m chase where I thought I would do well, was consistently average and now is something of a minor concern. Note on the lineup……….. ok even I get it wrong sometimes, but put it down to the stupid track and ground conditions, owe the jock a pint. My thanks to the chaps behind the scenes, new pc is on order soon so maybe able to support later in the season. And congrats to all winners places and new entrants, for whom the hardest week is now over. Josh
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Thu May 30, 2024 1:40 pm |
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ghosty
Group 2 winner
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:59 pm Posts: 763
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
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Last edited by ghosty on Fri May 31, 2024 6:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Thu May 30, 2024 3:18 pm |
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leonvr
Group 1 winner
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 2:50 pm Posts: 2483
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
Great week for me in both codes.
Flat manged to get 2 winners and and a Dubai third. That's better than it has been for a while. Clowns Court I stated in my write up was my best chance of group 1 success and she won well first time out. Rainbow Explorer looked good as well considering she wants soft ground. Might have a group contender with her if the ground comes up soft
NH 8 winners and 19 horses finish in top 3. Only a few disappointments but the ground and courses don't suit mine so most ran way better than expected. My stable needs softer ground .
Looks my change in trialling distance has paid huge dividend's for my 2m4/5 chasers. I had too impressive winners over 2m4/5 and what was a good sign for me was that Folk Etymology was tiring late which means I don't have numerous extra 3 mile chasers amongst my 2m4/5 chasers.
My horses didn't like firm ground so the form of the American NH races can be ignored
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Thu May 30, 2024 3:18 pm |
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delmonty1964
Group 3 winner
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:49 am Posts: 654 Location: torquay . devon
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
my favourite horses are Catch Me White Boy 4yo 1m+ - won Clanachy Frances 4yo 5f and 6f - 2nd Descriptive Lens 2yo 1m1 - poor run White Wind At Your Heels 2yo 6f - 4th Lady Grey 4yo 1m2 - 5th happy with horses i picked for trainers in stable tours plus 3 - 2nds 1 - 3rd 3 - 4ths 2 - 5ths happy with 1st week nice to see new trainers - hope you all enjoy the season glad to see all the golden oldies back and Nick and James back sweet great comms thanx to all the team Del
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Thu May 30, 2024 5:00 pm |
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jimma33
Selling plater
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:15 pm Posts: 88
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
Very happy and surprised with week 1, 8 winners on the flat along with a lot of places and a winner on the jumps.
Bit gutted to miss out on any Dubai prize money wasn't expecting the horses to be so competitive. So only entered my best horse in the world cup and it gets DQ'd
Got a new laptop about a month ago so had some time to get the teams together they've got good bars but wasn't sure if they would be any good CK wise
Thanks to all volunteers looking forward to the rest of the season.
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Thu May 30, 2024 5:24 pm |
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AdamA405
Handicapper
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:12 pm Posts: 129
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 Re: Season 16 Trainers Post Race Discussion and Thoughts
ive tried to do my nominations for week 2 but th only races I can enter my horses into area the graded or listed ones. its showing that I have no eligible horses for any of the maidens. how do I sort this?
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Thu May 30, 2024 5:35 pm |
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